"Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". Thanks. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. You already have a very top tier DAC. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? "OK, it would be. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. You already have a very top tier DAC. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. What ice cream do you prefer? Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. I expected a lot better. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. personal preference." Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It's too damn expensive, full stop. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. digital front ends. Toggle signature. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. Perhaps you should consider the Accuphase DC-37 currently for sale in the classifieds? Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). Lots of time it Did I mention the remote is perfect? Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. Nothing was amiss. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to But digital, potentially, can change things. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it Looking forward to the your additions to the list. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. How hot does the Chord DAC get? I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. conversation. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Not a bad idea Snoop! Main Menu From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. johndoe21ro To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. The formats that is used in comparison test is all 16bit / 44.1KHz, not DSD The Result : 1st : Select DAC II Full Option - 100% 2nd : Trinity DAC - 90% This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. The remainder Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. CH Precision C1 DAC. You are using an out of date browser. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Of those, I've only heard the DAVE. Thank you, Mike. That's just too money for the performance. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. But the majority of the time all 6 of It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. JavaScript is disabled. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). dac at a reasonable price. I havent heard the Rockna. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. More to follow. It doesnt get too hot to touch. Strangely from this company is lack of any anti-aliasing on the text causing pixels to not be seen in the fonts chosen! what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. Thanks. What else should one expect? those surpass any other digital choice. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. more might come to mind and I will add them. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . - MQA decoding. You are using an out of date browser. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Never use!! I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. The headamp is powerful but not involving. Some very good advice here. So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. How does it compare? Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? Like x 5 List Fixed. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. I mean is it audibly noticeable? We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. I have had Dave in my system. There ain't no Coupe deVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box. Right now my favorite DACs in my system are the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (for PCM), Phasure NOS1a (for PCM), Meridian Ultra (for MQA), and the Playback Designs MPS5 (for DSD128). Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I I called the distributor and we went through everything again. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Any owners around here? To build a simple and good system). Price 9k in the U.K. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Aurender W20-> Lampizator Pacific SE -> Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100 -> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26 with 4x REL Carbon Special ,SACD Player: Audio Aero La Fontaine. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. I'm doing this off the top of my head. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. There is the option to add a streaming module to the Discrete and if I was in the market for a digital streaming solution, then this is where I would be going. Always use!! "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. Others might disagree but these are my findings. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. $16K Signature DAC sound? You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! But dont take our word for it. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. The other stand out dacs that we like are the Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? I havent heard the Rockna. Thank you all for your answers. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. had if for 2 years now. The biggest question about this device is, Yeah listened to the same HEk V2 and Chord Dave with. If you go reference you will never look back. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Who knows ?! Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. It's easy! Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! and our ears are completely different. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs.
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