The correct understanding of any belief system shouldnt be of importance when Jesus says to come to him as a child., I think Jesus meant childlike, not childish. Childlike faith and trust are good, but faith has content, and, as it says in Hebrews, we should not be satisfied all our lives with the milk of the word, but should graduate to solid food.. Im sure no one here would like someone to denounce their beliefs by stating them in a way that they dont accept. It must start somewhere and with those who are willing to give up their cherished arguments for the sake of something better. William Hendriksen (18 November 1900 - 12 January 1982) was a New Testament scholar and . Considering the amount of people we are seeing who have had these experiences, I wish the accusations about misrepresenting the Reformed/Calvin/Tulip systems would take a back seat. . I was blessed to be in some wonderful, intellectually stimulating churches. I dont think that is what TWW is for, and if it were then I wouldnt be here. I have certainly never heard anything about either topic in Lutheran circles, though I *have* heard much about Gods love, mercy, forgiveness and grace. Its also what attracts many people to Calvinism nice boxes for everything, and rules connecting those boxes. Reformed(TM): Christ is thrown under the bus and there is only CALVIN! By accurate, I mean that its the definition of the term when it came into being. I am currently reading Roger Olson's book, Against Calvinism. It was your comment about illogic that got me to thinking. Does it say milk of the word? That sounds contradictory to the importance that many place on the word. I have not had that experience. Thousands of contemporary Calvinists cut their theological teeth on the teachings of Sproul and MacArthur and their respective ministries, Ligonier and Grace to You . I cant get there either on the basis of the argument (I have heard it all and tried)., I get where you are coming from within your paradigm. This is why I dont like to appeal to the belief systems of RCC, reformers, or Charlemagne. Did you see my comment in the post about a nice Calvinist? Ah yes, those were the days A friend of mine came to the Lord while living in the hills above Santa Barbara in a teepee and smoking a lot of pot He and his wife were some of the most sane, grounded people I knew in the 80s. Recently, I had a Calvinist who knowns me say that i was not a Christian by very fact that I write this blog and call out some of the people that he admires. So thankful to be free, now. Ex-Calvinist Daniel Gracely in his book Calvinism a closer look writes: "Calvinist and Non-Calvinist do not share the same meaning of words.. But maybe there is just too much pain and hurt for that to be possible. *If we disagree, let us disagree on what we see in Scripture, not on our own sense of right and wrong. Maybe it isnt. John Piper truly had no idea why his tweet from Job 1 caused an uproar. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. The assuredness of the approach is arrogant. There are anti-Calvinists with websites who have examples, quotes taken from books by pro-Calvinists where the pro-C equates Cal to the Gospel itself, their point being to hint that anyone not embracing Cal is not a Christian, then you have the Cals who come right out and say it. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that you dont want Calvinists to be completely honest about what they believe in the current discussion, because someone may be hurt. If the person makes the comment because he/she believes its important that others should know that there are people who can be hurt by that conversation in real life, how should that affect the online discussion? Please, please, please, keep us posted on your son in law. Even if we say we agree in the fundamentals/indisputables Calvinism makes it clear, and both Jeffs have admitted, that there is no human agency capable of understanding truth fully. I didnt say we should be satisfied with the milk of the word. Sois that what we are saying? If God had not give Adam and Eve a test and just stuck them there in the Garden with no choices, or had God forced them to be good, that itself is not an act of good, and God would have had two robots on his hands. I had planned to say the same thing to him. Having left my few years of Calvinism through a Lutheran rescue :), I cannot express the relief and renewal- or perhaps, first real taste- of the joy of my salvation. Pray for him. What scientists call the laws of nature we call normal operations of the sovereign God. I was allowed to believe in Gods love in terms that made sense to me. We need well-rounded meals, small and frequent, in a quiet warm kitchen with loads of kindness. 10 Things You Should Know about Reformed Theology As well as giving off a strong aroma of the No True Scotsman fallacy. John Calvin, Paul Helm John Calvin W. Robert Godfrey Crossway is a not-for-profit Christian ministry that exists solely for the purpose of proclaiming the gospel through publishing gospel-centered, Bible-centered content. For Non-Calvinists: Of Which I Am One | The Wartburg Watch 2022 This way of thinking goes against what Calvin said about freewill, the Westminster Confession of Faith says about freewill, and what every Calvinist Ive ever met says about freewill. He/She needs to be able to clearly understand why it is damaging and to openly explain how he/she does not hold to those ideas, which have been so awful as to cause some among us to become suicidal. People like RC Sproul understand that he can woo you all day long with heady notions of secondary causes because he understands that it will appeal to your false, but emotionally necessary urge for feeling loved and your sense of justice, without actually conceding his utterly deterministic assumptions. Any benefit we get from His death (i.e., salvation) is great, but if we act like we are too focused on salvation, we are selfish and may not even be saved.. Bring them to heaven? Im not saying that they are incapable of making the mistake, but, since you say that this is what many people come away with, it could be that they communicated it poorly. Keith Green (the only musician that made the list) 22. It buys you nothing in light of Gods absolute control. Calvinism stopped making sense to me when I was grieving the loss of my son last year. Wasnt that we didnt know we had differences but we were Christians who were in it together. And it wouldnt matter to me if what the person said was true or not. This reminds me of what the guy in the videos (Refuting Calvinism video series) was saying in one video. Olsen is one of the writers who sees two "loose coalitions" developing in evangelical theology. I think I stated why above. Thanks for posting it. God does indeed work in mysterious and wonderful ways I know theories of the atonement impact stuff, but I just cant get into that whole debate for some reason. So, when some folksfinally get into a Calvinist church that teaches sound doctrine, they believe that they have found a system that has answers for many questions that had troubled them. To give a sense of scale for word count well over 600,000: Rule of thumb for both manuscript format and mass-market paperback is 250 words/page. The assuredness of the approach is arrogant. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: I actually returned here wondering if you would even let my comment stand, considering you are being so charitable and I called Calvinism a horrible doctrine! So this is a goal for myself, as my family is growing up and I am finding a bit more time. Here is a quick bio on Olson from Wikipedia. Its really beyond my comprehension, so I dont think about it too much. @ JeffB: I even like some mean Calvinists. I am currently reading Roger Olson's book, Against Calvinism. . Feels your pain with you. List of Christian theologians - Wikipedia I think it means that God is aware of every molecule (which He created, of course), and that none of them escapes His will. The Arminian Bible Commentary: Parallel Commentary on Hundreds of He beat me to the punch. Thinks youre the bees knees. And heres 2400+ pages of PROOF! And would appeal to organization freaks with OCD who crave To Be Absolutely Right? And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, Which commandment is the most important of all? Jesus answered, The most important is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. I used to have the same problem talking with, or debating Roman Catholics, online. They will tend to use hyperbole to make their point. Would you drink a glass of water with just a little flesh eating bacteria in it? Calvin is a little deep to get through, not to mention that the language structure is about 500 years old and not written in English. I think a better question would be: Why should He want to stop me? He shouldnt be let out of his cage yet. When you say that people are misrepresenting the Reformed view, or Calvin, or Tulip, you seem to not understand that many of the people commenting have been taught that total depravity is Truth (along with other teachings that have done much harm) and if they believe otherwise, they may not even be believers. I would be happy, however, to never use the label Calvinist again, out of respect for Jeff and Jeff. The Literature of the Old Testament (1913) [Chapter9], Introduction to the New Testament (1915) [Chapter9], https://laikostheologos.com/introduction-to-soteriology/%5B/footnote%5D, Cultural Dimension of Language andLiterature, Gods Sovereignty in relation to Mans sinfulacts. This is merely a nice way of saying that God hasnt enlightened you to the truth. http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/happiness/helping-others, http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2013/09/dont-mess-with-texas-baptists_2.html, http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . That means you should be able to find other believers who view the faith as you do. I dont think God wanted this to happen- any more than he plans for children to be abused or any other of the litany of horrors that go on in this world. It is entirely congregationally driven, so the church votes on pastors, and votes on board members (elders), not the other way around. CALVIN! Or reformed, predestined, predestination, sovereignty,. 7 Reasons Why I'm Not a Calvinist - Radically Christian I really think that we have to go to Scripture with the intent of honestly, to the best of our ability, seeing what it says and submitting to its truth, instead of wanting it to confirm our beliefs. I told her that I disagree with John Piper's take on this situation.